Transcript of 166-12c-1_serial_1_section_2_56-la-156_la_report_6.9.68-part_5_of_7.pdf

================================================== Page 1 ================================================== 2 LA 56-156 RCB/je On June 8 9 1968 Lieutenant CHARLES HUGHES Rampart Division_ 9 Los Angeles Police Department 9 advised #1 that several women classified by his department 4s 'psychos IJ came to the police claiming they were the unidentified woman II in the white"polka dot dress and were 80 obviously not connected, their name3 were not even taken Lieutenant HUGHES said one woman, CATHY SUE FULMER , was questioned and released 474 ================================================== Page 2 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64 ) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION 6/8/68 Date CATHY SUE FULMER 9 age 19 , 3322 Breeze , West Covina 9 Califor nia engloyed 8o RUDY QUNTANIA at a new beer bar , unnamed 9 at 3215 Boulevard 2 advised 38 follows : She stated she had gone to the KENNEDY primary celebration at the Ambassador Hotel with a friend named M DENNIS (last name unknown ) and they were able to 'gate the reception held in the' Embassy Room of the Ambassador Hotel. FULMER claimed she had been able to near the um where Senator KENNEDY gave his speech and standing near her was an individual she described as a short male Mexican, about 20 years of age , whom she recognized from newspaper photographs as STRHAN SIRHAN FULMR stated that after the shooting, she ran out of the main entrance of the ballroom yelling words to the M1 effect shot him he shot him FULMER said she did not ecteeliy see the shooting but was coming forward to give her story since she thought she had been confused with a woman she had read about in the papers as having worb a white Il dot dress and was heard to yell, shot him we shot hin FULMER said she was not wearing a white polkadot dress but did wear an orange and white polkadot scarf tucked in around her collar and wore a dark green suit Los Angeles_ > Californi On 644168 at File # Los. Angeles_ 56-156 SA RICHARD C BURRIS /je 6/8/68 by Date dictated This document containg neither recommendations nor concl Iusfo75 _ of the FBL. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it ad it8 contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. Jet boy crash" get podiv "He paka- "we ================================================== Page 3 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64 ) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Date 6/8/68 Miss SANDRA SERRANO wa8 taken to the main lobby of the Los Angeles Police Department where she was able to observe CATHY SUE FULMER She advised that FULMER was definitely not the woman she had seen on the stairway at the Ambassador Hotel the night Senator KENNEDY was shot 476 On 56474/68 at +osAngeles , Galifornia File # Los_Angeles_56_156 by SA RICHARD C BURRISLoje Date dictated 6/8/68 This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside agency_ your ================================================== Page 4 ================================================== FD-302 (Rev. 4-15-64 ) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION Date 6/7/68 "Torrance_ California June 7 , i968 Harold L. Burba , reside at 20503 Osage Avenue , Torrance, California I am employed the Los Angeles City Fire Department , at 217 South Hill Street 9 Los Angeles , California_ "i have been advised of the identities 3f interviewing agents that are special agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I voluntarily furnish the following signed statement. the night jf June 4 , 1968_ I was on official duty at the Ambagsador Hotel in Los Angeles t take pictures Jf any violation of fire regulations This was done at the request 3f the Fire Prevention Bureau_ around mid-night I was sitting across the hal1 which runs along the north side pf the Embassy Room _ I observed Senator Kennedy and his party pass where I was sitting and g0 out jf sight around a door wajy and I believe that he had gone on int? the Embassy Room_ were several straglers following the Senator 8 party One of them came t? my attention due to the wajy he was looking from 8ide to side as though he was observing the layout of the area or the pe?ple around the area He was als? carrying what appeared t? be 2 rolled up poster in his hands _ It appeared t? be a roll about two feet long and three t? four inches in diameter_ As I saw a rolled up poster; similar to the one I had previously seen being held in the air in the hall, while the Senator was apparently in the Embassy Room_ Sometime later the Senator 8 party was leaving the Embassy Room On 6/7/68 at Torrance 9 California File # L2g Angeles 156 SA WILLIAM E, WHITE and by SA SAMUEL J FELTON/WEW /a81 Date dictated 6/7/68 This document contains neither recommendationg nor conclusiong of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. "I, by they "On "At "There 477 56_ ================================================== Page 5 ================================================== 2 LA 56-156 1 'and moving down toward the Press Rooin at the end Qf the hall_ I did not actually see Senator Kennedy at this time but by the movement of the crowd I was under the impression that he was in the group "i heard what sounded like three shots fairly close , followed by severel more at randon intervals They sounded like came from a cap pistol I also saw what appeared to be flashes from the shots At this time I had the impression of someone standing on a table and firing a gun at 3 downward angle Ii moved toward where this activity had happened and learned that Senator ' Kennedy had been shot I my camera and returned and began to take pictures I took five tures of the activity I then learned that in addition to Senator Kennedy 9 several others had been shot I also became aware that some of the commotion was caused by several others subduing the person who apparently had done the shooting "i later left the ambassador Hotel and went to Fire Department Headquarters Enroute I wondered whether the person I had seen following The Senator ' s party with the poster had been involved in the shooting However after I arrived at Headquarters I heard a newscast that aescribed the suspect a8 possibly a Negro or Mexican man about 25 years of age I recalled the person I had seen with the poster as about that description but with a complexion too light to be described as Negro or Mexican The man I had seen had a full head of black hair and he was wearing a blue shirt or blue jacket and possibly dark trousers "I later saw newspaper pictures of the person charged with the shooting and I felt that it was the same person I had seen following Senator Kennedy and carrying the poster "The pictures I took showed several people struggling with a man who apparently had done the shooting One picture showed Senator Kennedy on the floor surrounded by people The foot and a portion of the of one of the other victims was also shown in the picture of Senator Kennedy _ One of the pictures only showed the backs of some bystanders Another picture showed a man standing on a table next to the Wall near where the Senator had been shot 478 they got pic leg ================================================== Page 6 ================================================== LA 56-156 "I have read the above statement consisting of this and four other pages which I have read and initialed and it 18 true and correct to the best of my knowledge _ "g/ Harold L. Burba "witnessed : "/8 William E. White 9 Special Agent _ 9 FBI , Los Angeles 6/7/68 . "/s Samuel J Felton, Special Agent 9 F.B.I,, Los 'Angeies 6/7/68 _ 479 ================================================== Page 7 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION Date 6/7/68 On June 6, 1968, JOSEPH THOMAS KLEIN 1713 West Malvern Avenue Apaztmene &, Fullerton; California, teiephone 714_' 879-90i1, advised he is a student at Fullerton Junior College _ KLEIN stated that on the evening of June 4 , 1968, he was at the Ambassador Hotel when Senator KENNEDY was shot and then furnished the follow information: KLEIN was standing with two of his friends outside of the Embassy Room at the Ambasgador Hotel right after Senator KENNEDY had finished his victory speech. Approximately a minute or 80 after Senator KENNEDY had left the Embassy a man came running out of the Embassy Room and shoved Rcopie as he ran- This man was carrying a package under his arm and the package was approximately three feet long and was I wrapped in some stuff possiblj paper or cardboard . KLEIN followed this individual out of the hotel , but upon reaching the outside he lost him KLEIN asked several people if they observed a man running and they indicated not KLEIN stated the reason he followed this individual was beceuse he was the first person to come running out of the room and was carrying a package _ Also PATTI NECSON 9 who was with KLEIN stated she had seen a muzzle of a gun sticking out of one end of the package . KLEIN himself did not see the muzzle of a gun Also a DENNIS WEAVER was with KLEIN and NELSON and WEAVER did not see a muzzle of a gun_ KLEIN explained that last night , June 1968 he wes watching the Channel 7 News at 5:30 p . I _ 9 'chat O968inaced from New York City_ The news program showed a scene with Senator KENNEDY W Ialking out of the Embessy Room after making his victory speech and the camera fanned out on the people who were standing in the corridor outside of the roon where Senator KENNEDY was walking The television camera stopped on this individual and at this point KLEIN recognized the same man he saw the previous night running out of the Embassy Room after Senator KENNEDY had been shot _ In the television scene this individual had a blue package in his hand _ KLEIN stetea he would recognize this individual if he saw him again _ 480 6/6/68 Fullerton, California Los Angeles 56-156 On at File # SA JOHN M. AGNEW / clp by Date dictated 6/6/68 This document containg neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It i8 the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it &d it8 contents are 'not to be distributed outside your agency. ing "blue ================================================== Page 8 ================================================== 2 CA 56-156 KLEIN furnished the following physical description of the individual running out of the Embassy Room carrying a package _ Sex Male Descent Mexican or Cuban Age 23-24 Height 5"9" Weight 130-140 pounds Hair Black, long sideburns Build Slender Clothing Shirt and and slacks KLEIN stated that PATTI NELSON resides in Bellflower, California, and her home telephone is 213-867-4570 , 481 tie, ================================================== Page 9 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION 6/8/68 Date DENNIS STEVEN WEAVER , 10422 Kern Avenue Garden Grove, California, telephone number 531-3782, furnished the following information in the Los Angeles Office of the FBI _ WEAVER is 22 years of age and a graduate student enrolled full-time at California State College, Fullerton, California, majoring in History. At about 10:30 p.m on June 4 , 1968 9 WEA VER met PATRICIA NELSON and JOSEPH THOMAS KLEIN at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles , California 9 Their purpose in being there was to partake in what they anticipated would be KENNEDY 1 S victory celebration in connection with his Winning the presidential 1988,nahe in California Shortly after midnight on June 5, the three of them walked over to the entrance of the Embassy Room in this hotel: WEAVER saw a male individual running out of the Embassy Room and this individual ran between NELSON and hinself He was carrying a three foot long circular blue roll of paper which was approximate eight or nine inches in diameter. WEAVER did not hear this individual say anything as he was running past them _ He was only able to observe him for a few sec onds _ He had never seen this individual before nor has he seen him since_ He thought that it was very unusual when there were hundreds 0f people in the lobby that this rale individual should be running 50 fast out 0f the Embassy Room when everyone else wa8 standing still or entering this room At the time WEAVER saw this individual come out of the Embassy Room he had not learned about the shoot of Senator KENNEDY _ The following i8 a physieal description of the unknown individual which WEAVER observed: Sex Male Race White Age 25 -35 Height 5 feet 10 inches to 5 feet 11 inches On 6/7/68 at Los Angeles , California File # Los Angeles 56-156 SA LESLIE F WARREN and SA LLOYD 0 BOGSTAD /LOB /ali 6/7/68 by Date dictated This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions f the FBI. It i8 the property of the FBI and i8 loaned to your agency; it and it8 contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. 482 ely ing ================================================== Page 10 ================================================== 2 LA 56-156 Weight 165 pounds Eyes Unknown Complexion Medium Hair Short dark Sideburns Normai Clothing Wearing a gray or a blue suit with what was believed to be a white shirt and tie WEAVER was not sure whether he would be able to recognize this individual if he 3aw him again_ 483 ================================================== Page 11 ================================================== FD-302 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION Date 6/6/68 PATRICIA ELIZABETH NELSON 9 als3 known as Patti Nelson, 15311 Cornuta Avenue , telephone 867-4570 , furnished the following information: NELSON , age 20, 18 a student at the University Jf Ca lifornia at Irvine, majoring in Political Science She i8 the Orange County Coordinator 3f Students for KENNEDY _ At about 8.45 p .m. on June 1968 _ 9 NELSON arrived at the Ambassad3r Hsteln 3400 Wilshire Boulevard , LJs Angeles , California, tj partake in the contemplated victory celebratizn there for Senator KENNEDY The Pres:dential primary elections were held in California 3n June 4, At about 12:10 a m_ 2 on June 5, 1968 , she was standing with JOSEPH THOMAS KLEIN , als3 known as Tom Klein, in the lobby jf the Ambassador Hotel, next tj a pillar just outside of the Embassy Room jf this hotel There were hundreds 3f people in the lobby Al1 Jf a sudden she observed a male individual running through the lobby I I and heard him 8ay twice, Excuse me please This individual said nothing else _ He came jut of what appeared to be the Embassy Room or a rjom very c lose to the Embassy Room_ Under his right arm this individual carried a package 9 which was about three and one half feet long and about six inches wide, wrapped in what appeared to be a dark blue canvas type cloth The front pf the package was closed It could well have been a gun case This package was held loosely in this individual'8 right hand What appeared to be a wooden stock of a rifle or a shotgun protruded out 3f this blue canvas about six inches . NELSON did nt know the difference between a& shot- gun and a rifle The wooden stock appeared t? her to be Jf oak or light walnut finish She felt quite sure that the wood that protruded from this blue canvas was definitely the stock Jf a gun. She observea this individual for a period pf about five seconds and last saw him running down the corridor of the hotel_ 6/6/68 Bellflower, California LA 56-156 On at File # SA LLAYD 0 BOGSTAD/kaf 6/6/68 by Date dictated This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it &d it8 contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. 484 4 , 1968 . ================================================== Page 12 ================================================== 2 LA 56-156 She believed this individual's appearance to be very unusual because Jf his wearing apparel as al1 the men there were dressed in suits_ He a183 had very long hair and long sideburns which was not characteristic of those present . The fact that he was als) running appeared unusual to her She had never seen this individual before or 8ince that time KLEIN later tolcz NELSON that he had seen this same indi vidual on the FRANK REYNOLDS News Program, an ABC television program _ KLEIN stated the ABC teleision cameras up thee individual a8 they panned the hotel lobby. The following 18 a physical description furnished by PATRICIA NELSON conc erning the individual that ran her in the corridor of the Ambassador Hotel: Sex Male Race White Nationality Mexican or Cuban Age Early 20' 8 Height 576" Weight 140 L 150 pounds Build Slight Complexion Medium Dark Eyes Unknown_ but believed brown Hair Black; iong, straight, hung Jver his ears and hung "in back to about where his collar would be ; long heavy sideburns which extended ta the bottom of his ears _ Appearance Clean shaven Peculiarities Stooped Dress Burgandy or dark sweater with V-neck, majy or may not have had shirt underneath; dark levi-type trousers , no press _ PATRICIA NELSON would recognize this individual if she saW hin again 485 picked past 5'7" ================================================== Page 13 ================================================== 3 NELSON furnished the ab3ve information t? Sgt _ MC ARTHUR , Los Angeles , California Police Department 9 3n June 5, 1968 _ 486 ================================================== Page 14 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION 6/8/68 Date PATRICIA ELIZABETH NELSON 9 15311 Cornuta Avenue 9 Bellflower 9 California 5 observed the film that was shown at the American Broadcasting Company (ABC ) 4151 Prospect Street , on June 7, 1968, Upon view the particular part 0f the film which showed Senator KENNEDY S entrance through the kitchen in the Ambassador Hotel , an unidentified man was shown carrying what appeared to be a roll of posters or similar paper and presented this roll to Senator KENNEDY for autographing, which was done After viewing this individual, NELSON stated, "That I 8 him. That'8 the same sweater, the same hair, the same II sideburns In regard to the above comments made by NELSON _ she was referring to the sane individual that she had seen shortly after midnight on June 5, 1968, in the lobby of the Ambassador Hotel. 6/7/68 Los Angeles, California Log Angeles 56-156 On at File # SA LESLIE F WARREN and SA LLOYD 0 BOGSTAD /LOB/alm 6/7/68 by Date dictated This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. 487 ing ================================================== Page 15 ================================================== FD-302 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Date 6/8/68 JOSEPH THOMAS KLEIN 3 1713 West Malvern Avenue Apartment 6, Fullerton, California obgerved the film that was shown at the American_Broadcasting Company (ABC) , 4151 Prospect Street , on June 7 , 1968. Upon viewing the particular part of the film which showed Senator KENNEDY ' s entrance through the kitchen in the Ambassador Hotel, an unidentified man was shown carrying what appeared to be a roll of posters or similar paper and presented this roll to Senator KENNEDY for autographing, which was done After viewing this individual, KLEIN stated, "That 18 hin right there I KLEIN was asked if he was sure of his identity of this individual and he replied, m positive' In regard to the above comments made by KLEIN he was referring to the same individual that he had seen shortly after midnight on June 5, 1968, in the lobby of the Ambasgador Hotel. On 617/68 at Los Angeles , Californitile # Log_Angeles_56-156 SA LESLIE F WARREN and by SALLOYD BOGSTADLLOBLalm Date dictated 6/7/68 This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are 'not to be distributed outside your agency. 488 "I' ================================================== Page 16 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION 1 6/8/68 Date DENNIS STEVEN WEA - 10422 Kern Avenue, Garden Grove, California observed the film that was shown at the American 'Brcadcasting Company (ABC ) 3 4151 Prospect Steeetin on June 7 , 1968. Upon Viewing the particular part of the which showed Senator KENNEDY 8 entrance through the kitchen in the Ambasgador Hotel, an unidentified man was shown carrying what appeared to be .8 roll of posters or similar paper and presented this roll to Senator KENNEDY for autographing, which was done_ After viewing this individual_ 9 WEAVER stated that this is the same individual, has the same general size9 but the clothes do not appear to him to be the same , He thought this unknown individual was wearing a dark colored suit The package that this unknown man carried appeared to be 8imilar to the package he had observed_ In regard to the above comments made by WEAVER, he was referring to the sane individual that he had seen shortly after midnight on June 5, 1968 , in the lobby of the Ambagsador Hotel. On 64768_at Los Angeless Californitile # Los Angeles_56-156 SA LESLIE F WARREN and SA LLOYD 0 _ BOGSTAD /LOB /alm 6/7/68 by Date dictated This document containg neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It i8 the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency_ 489 VER , ================================================== Page 17 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION 6/8/68 Date Miss BARBARA SHAW 6030 Cad1llac Avenue , Los Angelee 5 California Tas interviewed ak Goleta California, at vhich time she s Cated that she is a @ecretary for State Senator ANTHONY C BIELENS ON During Senator KENNEDY ' 8 talk at the Anbassad01? Hotel she was in corlgany with Senator BIELENSON 8 wife DELORES and 9 upon the conclusion of Senator KENNEDY 8 callc she and Mrs BIELENSON went fror: the nain roon? into 8 kritchen hallway because of the oppres - sive heat in the Tiain roon A few ninutes later_ it appeared to her that Senator KENNEDY had passea through the kitchen hallway and had gone beyond ther but she Zid not see hin at that tine because she was cistracted by other persons around her Mrs BIELENS ON advised Miss SHAW that the Senator had passed At that point_ she heard what she thought wab a series of firecrackers ezplode and learned later that the Senator had been shot She stated that she did not observe the Senator in the kcitchen hallway dic not observe the aerailant and Imew nothing else about the shooting except what she learned later fror: other persons She learnec froz Mrs BIELENS ON 0 however that Mrs BIELENSON had obeervec a part of the incident . On 6/8/68 at Goleta California File # Los Angeles 56-153 SA GORDON B_ PLAYMAN/vjh 6/8/68 by Date dictated This document containg neither recommendations nor conclusions f the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and it8 contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. 490 ================================================== Page 18 ================================================== LA 56-156 JoS/ rah INTERVIEWS OF SIRHAN BISHARA SIRHAN CONDUCTED BY LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA POLICE_DEPARTMENT 491 ================================================== Page 19 ================================================== FD-3 02 (Rev. 4-15-64) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA TION 6/7/68 Date Inspector MERTON HOWE , Plans and Control Division, Los Angeles Police Department 2 made available tape reels nunbered 29083 and 29084 bearing the taped interview of' SIRHAN SIRHAN _ Reel number 29083 contains the following inter- viewis : A six minute original tape made June 5, at 2:05 a .m . in Room 318, Parker Center Jail A 28 minute original tape made June 5, at 3:15 a .m in Roorn Paxker Center Jail A 1 3/4 hour original tape made June 5, at 4;00 a . m in Roon J-1, Parker Center Jail An original tape made June 5, 1968 at 3:45 a , m . and later in Room Parkex Center Jail Reel 29084 is a continuation of the original tape made June 5, 1965 at 3:45 a .m _ and later in Room Parker Center Jail The follov ing ie a transcription of the above tapee : 492 6/7/68 Loe Angeles , California Los Angeles 56-156 On at File # SA JAMS E ETHRIDGE nrb 6/7/68 by 'Date dictated This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI: It i8 the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency_ 1568 1968 J-1, 1968 2A1, 2A1, ================================================== Page 20 ================================================== LA 56-156 HOWARD : You. understand Jou have the right to remain silent? S IRHAN: Sir. HOWARD : You have the right to &n attorney if you wish, if you cannot afford an attorney , you understand that the court will appoint an attorney for you? You have a- rlget' nt to make a statement Do you understand that? Now understanding those rights 9 now bear with me a minute, do you think that you want to make a statement now ? Do you understand your rights first of all ? STRHAN: Yes 9 I think that I shall remain incognito. HOWARD: You do not wish to make a statenent Is that correct? I have to have that, it sounds funny to you but can we this far? SIRHAN: I admit ita HOWARD : Would you tell me your name ? If you don t wish that 's your business Okay > fine, okay _ S TRHAN : That 8 it I said I will remain incognito. HOWARD : Thank you very much- name is HOWARD , if you change your mind can I write you my name and if you want to talk to have you a pencil, you can reach me twenty-four hours a NEW SPEAKER: Sit down, young man, this i8 Mr HOWARD from the Los Angeles County District Attorney 's Office and that's Mx MRPHY from the District Attorney'8 Office I'm Sergeant MULINDAS from Rampart Detectives Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) 2 kcnown as the Parker Center_ We just wanted to get your name, if possible Do you want to us your name ? Now , I ve written this down S0 you can read it At the I have written my name my name i8 JOHN HOWARD , District if you Want to 'taly to someone 9 GEORGE MURPHY District Attorney 8 Office, Detective JORDAN LAPD Detective MULINDAS LAPD wha works out of Rampart 'Kampart is a division Of the LAPB _ Do you understand that? 493 SIRHAN : Yes Yes , get to, man, My got me , day . give tofttorney ================================================== Page 21 ================================================== LA 56-156 HOWARD : What we would like to do today or tonight is at least your name for booking purposes _ Now 9 that 's your decision_ Is that possible? First Of can we that far? SIRHAN : I already said it. I gave you my answer. HOWARD : You don't want to make any statements at all Alright , will you take this with you? Let me write you my phone number. SIRHAN: Thank you _ HOWARD: MURPHY 8 number will be the sare That's MRPHY - STRHAN : How can I reach Jou? HOWARD : Extention 288-3161 That 's a straight line Do you that? You can ask for either JORDAN or MULINDAS _ Do you have anything you want to ask us ? SIRHAN: When will Ihave a chance to clean up ? HOWARD: As soon a8 you go through the booking process _ Let re explain to you what Will happen. Put that in ycur shirt pocket They have to book you You will be booked That '8 a legal procedure _ Fingerprints 5 pictures taken, everthing like that After that time, I'm sure you will be able to clean up - Now is there any other question you want to ask 48 ? SIRHAN : Not at present _ HOWARD : Okay I expect to hear from you _ Okay? Am I wrong? Will you go with these two officers ? They will be with you al1 night ANOTHER SPEAKER : Now relax, sit lay down, they will nOw definitely make arrangements for you . There is a security problem_ SIRHAN How long have you been with the District Attorney' s Office, Mr MURPHY ? 494 get all , get Sir, got down , ================================================== Page 22 ================================================== LA 56-156 MURPHY : Three years _ I retired from the Police Department and went on the District Attorney Office three years ag0. STRHAN Remember KIRSHKE ? MURPHY : Very well, sir. SIRHAN: What do you think Of his trial, his case? MRPHY : I didn't have any part in the investigation_ SIRHAN How long have you known JACK? MRPHY : I've known JACK for a long time. do you ask? SIRHAN Just interested - Being with the District Attorney' s Office I just thought you might have known _ HOWARD : It was a long trial_ Did you Watch any of it? STRHAN: I just listened to it in briefs MRPHY : It was a hard case to figure _ SIRHAN; How did you know who did it and Thy? MURPHY : Actually because I guess when you know anyone you have a hard time evaluating conduct. SIRHAN: Explain explain it. MRPHY : Well, I knew JACK KTRSHKE . Did you read about it_ 3 SIRHAN I just listened to it on television, I never kept up on it. I don t really smoke, but I would be obliged if you want me to Smoke with you _ GUARD : Do you smoke cigars ? SIRHAN : Thank you , you are very generous 495 13 Why No , it , Well, ================================================== Page 23 ================================================== LA 56-156 ANOTHER GUARD : He wouldn t give you a cigar , he doesn t have any (Laughter) SIRHAN : What does a job like this pay? GUARD: Well, let' s see_ SIRHAN : You re an official. GUARD : Well, Ium a policeman_ I'm working in the jail system. See_ they have policenen out in the field in uniform, like in a biue uniform_ They have policemen in here, too. SIRHAN : Is there any difference in pay? GUARD: it'8 al1 the Same Different responsibilities of course, but it'8 all the same As soon a8 you come on the job , it 8 al1 the same You know STRHAN: I like the mustache yqu have . GUARD : Oh, it'8 been going about a week and a helf now_ I have a blond reddish beard s0 it'8 going to be pretty wild_- SIRHAN: Don t shave it when you it raised. GUARD : I m going to leave it long- I'm going on vacation in and I m going to grow a full beard _ I'm going to really let myself go _ Do you like to shave ? I hate to shave _ SIRHAN : No . I hate to shave. GUARD : It tears my face up all the time Entrance of other people. Exchange 0f greetings GUARD : Would you like to cleaned up ? STRHAN : Well, I don't look very presentabte. GUARD : It's not a perfect fit. 496 No,_ get July get ================================================== Page 24 ================================================== LA 56-156 ANOTHER GUARD: It doesn't fit me SIRHAN: I wish you could acconodate me more . GUARD : Did you everything you needed ? There , you look better: Do you want your hair do? SIRHAN : I think SO . GUARD: How ! 8 the leg? SIRHAN A little luke warm water. Help it a little.bit. GUARD: Got a bad leg? STRHAN: When are we going to continue our discussion on KTRSHKE ? GUARD: we were talking about KIRSHKE _ How come you followed that? I was interested to ask you_ SIRHAN I.didn t follow it. I was hoping you would clue me in on it_ You know , brief me in on you might say . GUARD: It was a tough law suit You '& have to know JACK= 0 As a deputy I worked with him, it hard to. SIRHAN: I mean the substance of the case. GUARD: The substance, actually was whether or not he was the guy that_ There i8 no question that his wife and friend of hers shot . There 19 no question about that _ The question is who did it_ The jury resolved that it was JACK KIRSHKE _ It was a hard fought case and went a long time. ANOTHER GUARD : How Long did that case go? GUARD : Gosh; it must have gone about four, five, or six months 9 I think_ OTHER GUARD ; at least that Long from beginning to end _ It was tried AL HARRIS , up in the Attorney General 's Office. 497 get Yea, it, 19 got Yea, by ================================================== Page 25 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN: How would the jury have reacted had KIRSHKE been. 0 not GUARD: A District Attorney? SIRHAN : Yeah, 2 District Attorney_ GUARD : It'8 hard to say . I think myself 9 that would probably hold a District Attorney to a higher standard than the ordinary citizen_ SIRHAN You bet your boots ! GUARD: You bet . That 's my guess . SIRHAN : Would you, _ 0 would you 1f you were in his shoes . How would you react? GUARD : It'8 hard to 8ay . SIRHAN: How about yoU 9 Mr MULINDAS ? MULINDAS : It'8 hard to 8ay , I don't krnow You d have to listen to the evidence &nd everything, testimony and everything How would you know? I m not too conversive with that case. I just followed it like an average layman; what I read in the papers _ SIRHAN: What was your attitude, Mr JORDAN? JORDAN: You mean as a juror or as a citizen? SIRHAN: As a juror or as a citizen? JORDAN: As a citizen. STRHAN: A responsible citizen_ JORDAN: Thank you - I'll have to g0 along with_ and I'd be inclined you d hold somebody in that position to a stricter accounting than you would on the everyday layman _ I think it'8 almost . 498 they ================================================== Page 26 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN JORDAN: Well, not necessarily. STRHAN I mean a stereo type. As al1 District Attorneys _ They al1 want that umph. They want to grab it. And yet he was JORDAN : Retribution. SIRHAN Retribution, and the tables were turned Jyou might 8ay . How did he really react now ? How would an average pergon, supposing you were involved, 9 how , exactly would you react; when you are the prosecutor and you want the other man life hungry and thirsty for his' blood, and JOU are thrown in his situation, that man 8 position, how would you want the other-the man that 8 prosecuting you. How much would you expect him to demand JORDAN: I don't know . Let me ask you this _ How much do you think? STRHAN : I asked the first' question_ MULINDAS : Oh , I think everyone would expect inherently, first of all , fairness and justice, beyond that what else could you expect? STRHAN: No favoritism at al1 Wouldn t you really. I mean I felt bad myself , a little bit, that JACK KTRSHKE must have , how should I sa,y? In one way he must have supposing a defendant was in fact innocent 0f the accusation of , what ever you call it 3 and JACK KTRSHKE demanded his life as restitution for his crime or whatever he did and he succeeded in it_ Wou you consider that a request for his life would in some way recompence the innocent lives that he has requested_ JORDAN : What are you asking me? SIRHAN: Huh? JORDAN : What are you asking me ? 499 19 yet ================================================== Page 27 ================================================== LA 56-156 STRHAN : Wouldn't you say that had his death now has his decision been an issue? JORDAN : His death penalty been imposed ? Yes SIRHAN : Now 3 would you say that the death penalty in fact, just and should be issued? JORDAN: 1 didn't follow the case that much. I could not say that 88 a matter_of opinion. I have no reason to believe it is not just , not fair that 18 a matter of sematic, now you're asking if it'8 fair and proper. The question 18 did he kill two people = If he killed two people, then 18 it a proper sentence ? Who knows ? SIRHAN - He 18 wondering what I am thinking. I was following your line of thought _ JORDAN It S hard to kcnow other people _ You Icnow where you are now ? Ilve told yoa 've been - you are in custody. You Ve been booked _ You understand what I've been. SIRHAN I have been before a Magistrate, have I or have I not? JORDAN: you have not _ You will be taken before a Magistrate as soon a8 possible Prcbably will-be tried_ I you up there if worse comes to worse. SIRHAN JORDAN You '11 be properly attired_ This 1s an interrogation room I think it's room one; i8nlt 1t2 #nat '8 ccsrect _ Xou re downtown Los Angeles in the Central Jail the Central Jail in Parker Center_ Now when I say this , %'m 8ajing we re not communicating very well up to now ; but you are downtown Los Angeles , okay? This is the main jail for the LAPD . You '11 be booked . I don t know exactly where and I don't want to know where, but it will be around here Do you understand that? Do Jou understand where you are? SIRHAN: You said it. 500 18 , Now , No , get ================================================== Page 28 ================================================== LA 56-156 JORDAN : OK? I mean you know where L.A. 18 and all those things _ OK? So far? SIRHAN: So far 0 KIRSHKE JORDAN : Now , besides KTRSHKE , what else can we talk about? SIRHAN : KTRSHKE that 's al1 I Want:. JORDAN: Really? Did you read about it or are you 8eem 575= did you know any of the parties in it? SIRHAN: I told you I obgerved it seemingly. Very fleetingly on television_ JORDAN : Yeah_ They had a lot of publicity. A hard loss _ SIRHAN : You Ire a good Mr _ JORDAN JORDAN : I don't know about that, SIRHAN: How do you mean? JORDAN: Well... SIRHAN: If a person doesn t know himself , 8ir, really. JORDAN : Well, OK, I think I am. SIRHAN : Beautiful How about you, Mr MULIND:Z } do you any children, family, or MULINDAS : I have children, how about you? Uh ? SIRHAN : D you plan co train them in this business of prosecution? MULINDAS they're girls _ SIRHAN : Oh They wouldn't become good juries and judges 9 can they MULINDAS : Yes They could SIRHAN: Do you think she will make it again? I 501 No , man, got No , ================================================== Page 29 ================================================== J, MULINDAS : Yes _ SIRHAN: Why ? MULINDAS : Because last time I heard, she was ahead in the voting SIRHAN : 1 like her , that lady _ She i8 a little one , no ? The little mini-skirt type of a girl. JORDAN If I wa8 going to call you 8ome thing, what would I call you? GEORGE , PETE , or what? SIRHAN : FRANK . JORDAN; Officer FRANK MULINDAS _ SIRHAN: not this one JORDAN: he means the young nephew FRANK _ S TRHAN : And I introduced myself a8 JOHN DOE MULINDAS : Did you? JORDAN I think I gave him a clue to that _ You like the name JOHN DOE? SIRHAN it'8 nice, for one thing. JORDAN Gee , I would have thought of something more exotic than JOHN DOE SIRHAN: We really , I think MULTNDAS : How about RUDOLPH VALENTINO . SIRHIAN : I think HUMPHREY i8 Very exotic myself_ MULINDAS : HUMPHREY? SIRHAN: Yeah, or MURPHY or whatever it 18 . JORDAN : We out list of names . 502 -1,- N? , No, Oh, 11, got ================================================== Page 30 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN: Forgive me , uh? JORDAN: Here it i8 . SIRHAN: HOWARD_ JORDAN : HOWARD , we have MURPHY and JORDAN and MILLITO _ SIRHAN: Ha ve MURPHY _ 9 HOWARD , JORDAN is a more--how d3 you say it--very streamlined JORDAN: Well, thank you_ People don 't usually refer to me a8 streamlined _ SIRHAN : I mean your name and pronunciation Don 't you think that? JORDAN: It rolls off the tongue easily. Al1 in? STRHAN , what do you mean? Tired ? SIRHAN: Not really. JORDAN : Sure SIRHAN : 18 there any chance for s me coffee or something to drink? JORDAN: Is there somne coffee around ? We '1l try to find some Just lteep you awake SIRHAN: Huh? JORDAN: Just keep you awake SIRHAN: Your daughter i8 going to Vassar? M1 JORDAN Going where ? SIRHAN: How old are they? JORDAN: Pretty young. SIRHAN: Oh, really? JORDAN: Yeah_ 503 Sayiease _ ================================================== Page 31 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN: You must have married late JORDAN : Yeah, how about you, you haven 't told me Have you ? SIRHAN: Wha t ? JORDAN : What ? _ Wha t 9 what? SIRHAN: You questioned . JORDAN: Your question_ How about your kids ? SIRHAN : Wha t about it ? JORDAN : I don't know what do yju take in your coffee? SIRHAN: Black. JORDAN: Just black or would you like a little bit of sugar in it? SIRHAN : if you any good cream, I would like a little bit of that , and a little sugar J please _ JORDAN: They s3me powdered cream down here SIRHAN: that '8 al1 right , just a little, just a 2 of sugar 9 please . JORDAN: OK, real good _ SIRHAN: I appreciate it, thank you. JORDAN : That 's all right _ JORDAN: We won 't be bugging you much_ I won 't, anyway , 'cause I'm going to sleep because I m inherent lazy. SIRHAN: Inherently? JORDAN: Yeah_ SIRHAN : You shouldn't be a DA as8istant , you shouldn't be a DA assistant 504 yet Hey , got Oh , got N? , ly ================================================== Page 32 ================================================== LA 56-156 JORDAN: Wha t I would like to do ah, you know how to reach me , you don!t even need a dime SIRHAN : They, they. = JORDAN: They '11 give you a phone ca1l SIRHAN: No, when they called it, they, insisted that I do the process of dialing_ JORDAN: Yeah, they'11 make you dial - SIRHAN : Will that happen too? JORDAN: they'11 let you dial any time want and uninte llleabie ) and for extension dial 282e3888. SIRHAN : I did that. JORDAN: You did? SIRHAN : And the lady gaid that , said that. JORDAN : Did you dial for me ? SIRHAN: Ye8 _ JORDAN : Did you? SIRHAN: Yeah _ JORDAN No one ever dials SIRHAN Yeah_ JORDAN Well SIRHAN: I dialed several times and no reply. JORDAN : Oh _ SIRHAN : So then JORDAN : Someone said you wa nted, you know 505 18, they ================================================== Page 33 ================================================== LA 56-156 JORDAN : The Mormon? SIRHAN: Yeah, one of these guys right here JORDAN: How did you tell he was Mormon? SIRHAN: Well, they had a little joke about Mormons 3 he was a Mormon himself JORDAN: Yeah_ SIRHAN : The guy that fingerprinted me JORDAN: Well, what I would like for you to do 18 keep these I want to talk to you when you feel that you want to talk to me SIRHAN : Well I, well I, 0 JORDAN : I told you that, you know 83 sometine you want to talk, you know what I want to talk about Jou want to talk about anything, KTRSHKE , we will talk about KIRSHKE _ SIRHAN: OK , we '11 talk about whatever, how about the stock market ? JORDAN : You play it? SIRHAN: I don't, I don't really know the the mechanics of it , the thing that makes it gO . Tell me it, you seem to be wealthy e nough t?_ JORDAN : I don't know anything about it. SIRHAN : To speculate in it, really _ I mean in legal cases . Doesn 't the stock or the finances come in at all? JORDAN: There are much darker things than that the & come ina SIRHAN: There are ? How do you mean? JORDAN: I don't know , you'd be surprised SIRHAN : What a day . No , about 506 ================================================== Page 34 ================================================== LA 56-156 JORDAN : I don't know DAVID , I'1l proba get a cup of coffee, bring you one I don t know I'll remind you before I leave to tell them to you some pants _ SIRHAN : No thanks Preferably my own, really. JORDAN : Mendicants ? What 18 mendicants ? You mean priests ? SIRHAN: Mendicant ? JORDAN: Oh ! Mendicant . SIRHAN: Isn't that a beggar? JORDAN: I don't know che word _ SIRHAN: Really? JORDAN: Yeah? SIRHAN : Gee , isn 't this terrif_ HOWARD don 't tell me that ? JORDAN : Haven 't you heard of mendicant prayer8 ? Begging? What i8 mendicant ? SIRHAN: I thought 1 mendicant wa8 a beggar? Really , look it up _ JORDAN: I will_ SIRHAN You know it, don t you? JORDAN: How do you spell it? SIRHAN : I don 't really know _ You know, I hear it, pick it up here and there SIRHAN: We11 ? JORDAN : Wha t are you laughing about ? What are Jou thinking about ? 507 bly get ================================================== Page 35 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN: Your predicament , your #e Te Ged JORDAN: Not bad . SIRHAN : not ? JORDAN: Huh? Why would I that ? SIRHAN: You have me wrong SECOND OFFICER: Coffee , now you want me to take some ? SIRHAN : where i8 ~_377 unintelligible all talking at once regarding coffee) SECOND OFFICER : We 1 Ve been drinking coffee_ We just it down before we came down here now You want me to take a swa low It 8 all right SIRHAN : Another one SECOND OFFICER : Fine, hope you like sugar. SIRHAN: Ie it sweet ? SECOND OFFICER : Uh huh_ I drink mine black with nothing in it. OK? SIRHAN: Thanks SECOND OFFICER: Like I said, if anything happens we go together SIRHAN: Right , right , al1 the way , huh_ SECOND OFFICER: Right SIRHAN : Really , I feel out of ce SECOND OFFICER: We al1 had two or three cups and I am sure you haven 't had any ; it '8 only fair that you have some SIRHAN: Thank you_ 9 very considerate _ JORDAN: 8o no one anewered when you phoned up for me , huh? SIRHAN: N?, a lady----= ~pn 5 Why pick No, n?, put pla no, 508 ================================================== Page 36 ================================================== LA 56-156 JORDAN : Yeah, probably 3 ? 'clock he phoned out. Let me give you an extension, Will yeah? JOH DOE SIRHAN: OK? JORDAN: Call me JOHN _ SIRHAN : OK, JOHN , ha JORDAN : oK? Call me at 2288 and you can contact MURPH or I at the same number and you can reach these chaps at 388-3161 That 8 just working hours After work they will be around and you can rea ch someone at that call If you do call up at night , you know _ 9 as I told you I'm that lazy , 80 I don 't want to come down here SIRHAN : Inherently, inherently. Tell me how would y3u judge a man who is inherently lazy and yet 83 thriving and wanting to be on the job to impress hi: superiors JORDAN : Why not ? SIRHAN: (Unintelligible) and this guy claimg and professes to be inherently lazy . He should g0 out and exercise you have a lot of it here Wha t '8 funny? JORDAN: He knows how to really hurt a guy, you know that ? SIRHAN : Right Americans , physical health gone SECOND OFFICER : Mr HOWARD , Lieutenant HAGGEY would like to speak to you outside JORDAN: HAGGEY , from Le5 SECOND OFFICER: Rampart JORDAN: Be ba ck in a second SIRHAN: What are you thinking, Sarge ? SERGEANT : I'm the low man on the totem pole, you follow me ? SIRHAN: You are the best man, 509 yet got ================================================== Page 37 ================================================== LA 56-156 SERGEANT : Thank you , that '8 35ee SIRHAN I mean to say that with all my 9incerity. SERGEANT : Well, I'm trying to do this like I think it should be done properly, and I hope 1t'8 right _ SIRHAN: I respect you for that . SERGEANT : I think it '8 right , and if you agree , that makes me feel that I'm on the right track anyway. Has everybody been treating you OK? SIRHAN: Wonderful SERGEANT : OK_ SIRHAN And I apprecia te it_ ~0 SERGEANT : Well, that '8 ~iz__went out with the dark age8 , I hope . SIRHAN: I hope I hope 83 . SERCEANT: N? , believe ne as long a8 you re with this department you nzi1 be treated properiy, that '& a 58eee I promise you SIRHAN : I will hold you to that . SERGEANT : You hold me to that, I mean that If anybody mistreats you in any way , you let me know, and I will see that something is done I mean that , now, because that '8 not part of 553C~ I have 3 job ana I like to do it, and I d2 it properly _ Right? SIRHAN: I respect you for that , really. SERGEANT: I mean that seriously. SIRHAN: Thank you _ MULINDAS : Young man. STRHAN : Yes , sir. 510 89 , ================================================== Page 38 ================================================== LA 56-156 MULINDAS : Lett8 be friendly and manly for a second , we have a job to do _ You understand this 3 don't you? I'm Sergeant MULINDAS and this i8 Sergeant JORDAN ana you have been talking to Mr . HOWARD . Now , do you want to talk to us about the incident at the Ambassador or don t you? Were you at the Ambas sador tonight ? STRHAN : Mr_ JORDAN and Mr MULINDAS , I must act right and gay that when he informed me of my constitutional rights 9 the first thing that he said wa 8 that I have the right to remain. MULINDAS ; This 18 correct , this is abeolutely correct . SIRHAN : This is basic American U.8 . jurisprudence _ MULINDAS : But we have to leave here at least ask you if you want to talk to u8 about the incident JORDAN: You have to give up your right without force, if Jou want that '8 your choice That '& choice, no one else in the world can make it. MULINDAS : We re talking man to man now to you Mr JORDAN , a8 3 legitimate law enforcement 0feicer, advised you of your constitutional rights Now you have the right to up these rights if you want to talk to talk to us if this i8 your privilege Now do you want to talk to us about the incident tonight? Won't you at least give uS your name ? SIRHAN: I thought that you had my name ? JORDAN: JOHN DOE SIRHAN : JOHN DOE_ MULINDAS : Now what is your real name ? SIRHAN: (Unintelligible) MULINDAS : Now here is where we come down to JOHN, whatever your name is Let Ba G SIRHAN : DOE 511 give u8 ; ================================================== Page 39 ================================================== LA 56-156 MULINDAS : Al1 right 9 JOHN DOE When it comes right down to it, some point of time you may want to make a statement 9 that has to be up to you_ You had your rights explained to you You Ve been here now for some time to and talk to you to find out if you want to talk to uS Now I'1 leave you our numbers We would like to talk to you tonight 9 we would like to bring a stenographer In here take down reported statement , your statement as to what occurred within the last four hours before you came here _ That '8 what we would like to d3 . You have no obligation to make that statement SIRHAN: I'm no movie star, and want al1 much work, Jesus Christ _ MUL INDAS : Fine, that '9 good 6 nough for me OK, if you decide you don 't want to change your mind_ 9 you have jur names and you can rea ch us SIRHAN : What time is it, Mr JORDAN? JORDAN: It'8 20 minutes to 4. SIRHAN: I'm allowed 72 hours #efore I'm brought before a magistra no? MULINDAS : Maximum is 48 _ SIRHAN : 48 , well 7e3_e MULINDAS : It '8 court days SIRHAN: Court yu have that many hours minus before I'm brought before the magistrate _ MULINDAS : Right , that 's correct _ OTHER VOICE : I'll talk the guy out there and 8ee 1f they have any smaller pants , OK_ S IRHAN: Thank you. MULINDAS : He 's slender 9 that kind of hurts me SIRHAN: Where did you g2 to 8 chool, FRANK? Mormon College ? 512 try te , day , ================================================== Page 40 ================================================== LA 56-156 OFFICER: I went to Mormon College , right now I'm going to Glendale College , part time ANOTHER OFFICER: I'm getting tired of standing, sit down SIRHAN : really , I enjoyed it every time OFFICER : We are a11 drinking this time and a Bee96 SIRHAN : How d3 you do ? OFFICER: How are STRHAN: Fine OFFICER: JOHN 9 huh? SIRHAN: JOHN DOE OFFICER : Mr _ DOE , I feel like I am his official taster here tonight _ OFFICER : Where did you get those pants ? SIRHAN : How do you like that , new style, huh? They 'd fit you, JOHN , won 't it OFFICER : Huh? SIRHAN: I don't know if they would fit me or not ANOTHER OFFICER: You want me t? take another one ? SIRHAN : A couple that runs around here just might do it. OFFICER: I think I you outweighed a little bit too much for even those, huh ANOTHR OFFICER : You want me to take another one now , or SIRHAN: Really, I couldn t finish the other one , I. ANOTHER OFFICER : I mean are you 8atisfied in case you want another one SIRHAN : Take a few more if you want . 513 No , you? got ================================================== Page 41 ================================================== LA 56-156 ANOTHER OFFICER: I brought my own this time SIRHAN : Thank you- ANOTHER OFFICER : I jusc want you to.a . SIRHAN: Thank you _ OFFICER : This here 18 just an awake anyway , huh? ANOTHER OFFICER: I don 't want to talk t? you about the case, OK? SIRHAN : Wonderful, wonderful ANOTHR OFFICER : You said some thing that interested me and I want to come SIFHAN : Please _ ANOTHER OFFICER : About Mr _ KIRSHKE , OK_ SIRHAN : Surely , surely I'm always up , you know 9 I'll hear anybody _ I'm a good listener, but a hell of a lousy talker ANOTHER OFFICER : Lousy talker. SIRHAN: Don 't talk about it. ANOTHER OFFICER: No, I want t2 ask you, you obviously had some knowledge of the KTRSHKE case. SIRHAN : like I said_ ANOTHER OFFICER : Superficial, you sound like you have had a8 much a8 I have 9 and I don't have too much, that part interested me , too_ Do you feel you 8aid &omething about Mr KIRSHKE prosecuted innocent people Now , is that just a figure of speech, or do you have some feeling_ SIRHAN : it wasn't a figure of speech, you know_ how you read a book, a novel, where 9 how in the hell can I give you oh, take the movie or the book "The Mockingbird" or Kill It A Mockingbird I don't remember the exact details of this thing, but there was an innocent Negro involved in or against 3 murder or some crime 9 and succeed in revenging him and killing him_ 514 N? , No , a, "To yet they ================================================== Page 42 ================================================== LA 56-156 ANOTHER OFFICER : I'll be real honest I don 1 t remember SIRHAN I don 't remember either 9 but I kenOw where there wa 8 S ome support S0 that the guy that wanted to ba11 him_ the prosecutor_ 9 the he performed Is this being bugged in? Are you bugging me ? ANOTHER OFFICER Yeah, sure You Iznow that _ OFFICER : Sure 9 you Irnow that ANOTHER OFFICER : Now 1f that kills anything, as I 8ay , I'm not talking about the case SIRHAN No, I mean hell 9 if you want to tape ie bring the (okscene ) nike here , don t , don t plajy this (obscene ) with me ANOTHER OFFICER : No we re not playing (obscene ) with you_ Tha t ' s just routine Everything in the whole building, S0 we re not trying to hide anything_ OFFICER : Would you rather that we didn t tape it? SIRHAN It' s not the taping 9 you knOW , it' 8 a . OFFICER Would it make any difference if the recorder was set on the STRHAN: I'd feel more safe then , the waj I'd feel more safe OFFICER The same thing 18 going on the tape whether it's the tape sitting in front of you or it's going through the sound la b upstalrs ANOTHER OFFICER In fact , we ' d have trouble scraping up the STRHAN: Hello therer ANOTHER OFFICER Facilities to bring it in here because as I say it was built in that way , you know 515 way ================================================== Page 43 ================================================== IA 56-156 SIRHAN: Yeah, yeah. ANOTHER OFFICER ; we won 't lie to Jou anything you want to Inow you just ask, we re not going to lie to you OFFICER : I'm curious about your interest in KIRSHKE case SIRHAN ; really There is when the District Attorney up there > Mr HOWARD , he introduced himself 4s HOWARD , he said he wa 8 a District Attorney _ OFFICER Deputy District Attorney. SIRHAN Oh ! Deputy District Attorney. See , he did not write that on the paper ANOTHER OFFICER : I aml an investigator for the District Attorney' s Office and JORDAN i8 Sergeant OFFICER : He knows more about me than I Irnow about that' s for sure ANOTHER OFFICER : I' [il retired from the Los Angeles Police Department _ SIRHAN Congratulations on that. ANOTHER OFFICER I retired and went to work for the District Attorney 18 Office about three years ag0 , and he asked me about KIRSHKE I never irnew him_ I never had a case with iin al1 the time I was on the Police Departnent . I never had a case with him _ OFFICER : I think that I had one ANOTHER OFFICER : Here is a guy who prosecuted a lot of cases turns around , he prosecuted ever since STRHAN: This was the main thing that I was trying to under- s tand 9 you krnow You InOw hearing it from television is a lwajs for public appea1 , mass appeal . 516 No , No , n0 , hin, get ================================================== Page 44 ================================================== LA 56-156 ANOTHER OFFICER I agree with it. SIRHAN But you know 9 hearing it first hand from the in 9 you inow the inside is what really aroused my interest in the whole thing, when he said that , when he introduced himself as a meulber of the District Attorney' s Depa rtment 9 but there was no other interes& in it. JORDAN One thing a bout it our business will a lwajys be good_ We are never lacking for business OFFICER : Recessions , we never suffer from recessions _ SIRHAN: You know those church goers are just as black hearted as cen be , huh? OFFICER : I would never make a STRHAN I didn t say that Jou the force Just last Sunday I was hearing a religious report on the radio, that the church and medicine in the United States is rocketing. Boor You krnow it' s the highest in the country and you counteract it with saying that jail sentence 1s the OFFICER Our population i8 going Lp , too. Population has gone way up , S0 church attendance goes up . Your populatioil goes Up , your crime goes up STRHAN: Explain that OFFICER : Well, everything is going up _ I mean if population SIRHAN As a person , I see what you nean OFFICER Sure _ It' s a11 relative In other words , we start with one hundred people and let' 8 say fifty percent are church goers and five per cent are criminals Well_ the percentage might remein the same but with more 9 Te ta lk about 5,000 people 9 the percentage is still the sane but the numbers are increasing on both sides I thing that' s a11 Mr MURPHY means 517 No , No , peopie ================================================== Page 45 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN That figures 9 proportionally_ You should be a broler 9 Mr OFFICER : I am a broler . I'm broke al1 the tine SIRHAN Yeah, he wouldn t listen I'd find a brokrer and you hnow a mortgage broker , how coulc he go brole ? You krnow every transaction has to make a profit_ OFFICER Tha t ' s right _ Tha t ' s the stocl market 18 a pretty good business to be in SIRHAN You krnow your business Isn't bad either_ You a few convictions once in a while OFFICER : Yeah _ S IRHAN That keeps up the incentive OFFICER Gee nOW , that' s where you interest me You thinl that ou1 only interest in convictions 9 nOw you really mean that sincerely or? SIRHAN Well 5 like I said . This KIRSHKE business 9 it' s like that Boom, boom , booin , boon , you know he was OFFICER He was an agrcssive prosecutor SIRHAN I don 't kn Ow I don t krnow his personality. I mean his proceedure _ I don 't Irnow anything about the man really but you knOw any prosecutor is expected to be up there and agressive and willing to pet you know 9 the best , the most he can throw at it _ But whether he gets it or not is not rea his decision in the long run , you knOW eventually = OFFICER No _ What are you supposed to do Prosecutor 1s supposed to put the case and d0 the best he can If he loses , he loses He wins , he wins , This isn't 2 type of bus iness that you take home with you_ If it were , joL would be a ravinlg maniac . SIRHAN: How do you mean? got why get 1ly 518 ================================================== Page 46 ================================================== LA 56..156 OFFICER: Well, I mean you can't. IX you get a case and you re not able to solve it , if vou let it you, worty about it and relive with it, it'8 going to drive you crazy It' 8 a job _ You do the pest you can If you' re successful , fine_ If re not successful , re not supposed to= In other words , it isn't your whole life, twenty-four hours a where you are just dedicated to doing something. SIRHAN; But I thought OFFTCER You have give and take a little bit 03 otherwise. SIREAN As I understand it Correct nle if I'm mistaken no1 , I thought you said that you said it in passing that you to live with it M:: _ MONAGAL (phonetic ) _ How do you relate that living With it , you kcnoWw With leaving it in the office and when you g3 home you ignore it? OFFICER . I' m talking about doing a good job Doing a good job Doing a just job That 8 what you to live with_ You tp live with your conscience In other words , if you get a case On somnebody and you to iake a case on an innocent person this 18 the sort of thing yju to live With Who can live With something like that 2il theix conscience? SIRYAN Well, it depends on you know , unscupulous Blood thirsty District Atto ney ox any > anyone down OFFTCER : And you listen to a lot or people and they give the idea that law enforcement as a, Whole are all like that But in fact that' s not true SIRHAN Then are you trying to win my sympathy 9 now ? OFFICER I.m trying to state some fact to you = I don t know _ I mayy be mistaken but I s3t of have a feeling that you don 1 t completely trust us that W e Would be honest With you that you're going to a faiz 519 bug you'_ you' day , got got got tzy got N? , get ================================================== Page 47 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN Oh , I thought I put that quite affirmative sir, you know when we said we were a11 human beings you knOW OFFICER : Because I car assure you are going to a fair shalre SIRHAN Well there again, your implying, you Imnow OFFICER : I'm not implying, jugt stating a fact to you _ Your treatment been alright up to now? SIRHAN I don 't lcnow_ 9 lavished with your company , appreciate it OFFICER : Well, other chan being in custody STRHAN I've been most merrily entercained, in this whole building maybe OFFICER : Well, you re sort of the star of the show SIRHAN I'm a stage actor , no? OFFICER : Well, what i8 i* , who wa8 it , SHAKESPEARE said the whole world i8 a stage . SIRHAN That 1 8 righc 9 and everybody OFFICER : And everyone is an actor SO SIRHAN And if you want to portray one image you lcnOW 9 you can't go around and portray another one OFFICER : That 1 s right , oh you can for a while but you can t lceep it up 520 get NO , ================================================== Page 48 ================================================== LA 56-156 SIRHAN You won 't win in the long run, somebody will check you , you lcnow OFFICER : You can only go for 80 long SIRHAN Well, did you hear, tonight wa8 it, recently, that there ha8 been they called the jury System in United Scates unfair? OFFICER The death penalty? SIRHAN No , the jury system, the 8election of the jury ; you Imow in that part OFFICER : For death penalty case8 , that 8 what they were talking about SIRHAN no, no , this was just very recently that being a reiabive of 8o and 80 and the smartne8s of the lawyers in selecting just the right lrind of jury and dismissing this kind of guy and that 9 not necessarily with chis death deal , not the Supreme Court stand OFFICER Just the jury system 33 a whole SIRHAN No , the KFWB broadcaster they criticized something about the jury system_ Oh no , it was an advertise ~ Xle ment for Newsweelc an article about the Jury system, that really interested me I heard about it 9 I didn't read It you lcnow OFFICER : In Newsweek, it probably said the system was archaic and outmoded and medieval and 80 forth, I read Newsweelc and I can and everbody sets a tone , what do you think about the jury system? 521 oh , ================================================== Page 49 ================================================== LA 56-156 S IRHAN Wel1 isn t. Time and U. S . World Report all the same In league OFFICER : Well, U . S . World Report I think ha8 a slightly different editorial policy but they are al1 pretty much braclceted:. in the OTHER OFFICER JORDON _ 9 yoU have a phone call- JORDON Excuse me SIRHAN Yes 8ir OFFICER You Inow _ 3 thej can criticize the jury system buk until they can come up with bomething better_ 9 it'8 not bad when you loolr around some of these other countries their type of juscice I'd prefer what we here to what we have in Some of the other parts of the world _ S IRHAN Well, again, I agree with you, really, you Just can 't say _ OFFICER : You picked up 12 people and you Ve got 2 better chance than one or some of these countries, I wouldn t want to get hooked up in type of juscice S IRHAN Well , justice 18 Justice, really_ 9 what 18 justice other than being? Straight 9 simple and pure and just , the word justice itself puzzles me sometimes , what 18 it OFFICER : Fair play_ SIRHAN But would you consider well , again, lets pursue it further 9 what i8 fair play? 522 B got got ================================================== Page 50 ================================================== LA 56-156 OFFICER Equality, in S IRHAN : Well 9 that 18 not fair, you are coming back to justice again OFFICER : Alright , what do you say fair play i8? SIRHAN I don't kow , I'm a8lring you nOw OFFICER : Well, fair play i8 only that you don I t take advantage of anybody . SIRHAN Right treat others a8 you would want them to treat you , beautiful thing OFFICER Do you go along with that? S IRHAN Very much 80 , very much OFFICER Do you have any particular religious convictions? S IRHAN My conscience OFFICER : Is that al1? SIRHAN What more do you want from me ? You sustain that your 5 self in that you to live with it , you mow if you can 't live with it_ OFFICER : That 8 right SIRHAN You Imow Mr OFFICER MURPHY _ 2 you can t forget that S IRHAN Forgive the State Department leader , 523 got me ,

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